Thursday, June 23, 2005

"Christian" Politics

I know this is a topic of interest for several of my friends......this is a well-written editorial on the issue.


Michael Tosh said...

Wow I disagree with guy on so many levels I could write a novel. Let me try to sum it up with the biggest point those of us on the "Christian Right" make. God must be first, this is no secret. The Church must be right after that, again no secret. But for crying out loud the Church is under attack by an institution that is supposly "seperate" something 52 out of the 55 writers of the constitution thought was foolish. Proof! 11 of the 13 original states had recognized state churches and the 12 had a main stay church as an unofficial role and was recognize in legal matters.

Now its the opposite, I keep hearing that we Christians need to stay seperate, but then those on the other side do the exact opposite. banning Christmas and Santa Claus in towns all over the east coast, suspending a 5 year old from school for asking two friends to pray, removing religious documents as old as our society, attacking school prayer despite the fact the first puplic schools were religious based, I could go on.

I agree with some of his fundamental points, but as christians we must start becoming far more politically involved to protect our faith. Last point, in some European countries speaking the parts of the bible that are against homosexuality is against the law. Canda just followed suit with something similar calling preaching against homosexuality is a hate crime.

The people have their allies here...we need to wake up and prepare to defend our faith, because it is under attack by the very people who keep yelling seperation of churh and state at the top of their lungs! And believe me they are very powerful and are growing in numbers!

Gretchen, good article got me all kinds of fired up! :-)

gretchen lee said...

I think we're on totally different pages're talking about protecting religion, fighting for rights, making sure we're a "christian nation".....but here's the thing....We're supposed to be about Jesus and the things HE was about....feeding the hungry, healing the sick, extending grace to the broken, correcting and building up the Church....but I can't think of any time when he emphasized fighting for our rights when people challenge us. Jesus didn't give us any reason to think that he was concerned about the government or political things.

This other stuff is just a distraction, and I think the "Right" is totally falling for it!!! God's bigger than politics. We have a job to do, and it's the Gospel. It's time we just did what we were supposed to...the things Christ did....and stop worrying about the rest...I think God can handle it!!

Michael Tosh said...

but your missing the point of our the enemies of our God!

You see they want us to stay out of politics so they can slowly take away our rights to be christian...they want to eliminate our religion.

Look at the school system in this country...God is not allowed, I know kids who have been threatend with suspensions for talking about God, 40 Million Unborn babies have been killed in those slaughter houses called abortion clinics, bit by bit they are taking God out of politics, In Pennyslvania they threw ministers in jail for protesting homosexuality (they got off this time, but not before spending time in jail), ect...

You see Gretchen I agree with everything you said, but this part "We have a job to do, and it's the Gospel. It's time we just did what we were supposed to

Under that thought of mind we should have never got involved with the nazi slaughter of jews...thats not JUST preaching of the gospel...we should stay out of the abortion debate...thats not JUST preaching of the gospel...we should allow gay marriage...thats not JUST preaching of the gospel, ect...

you see Gretchen I really wish we could do what you say and just preach, but the enemies of God are out to create an immoral society that doesn't include our faith. I don't think we can just sit back and take this, because if we don't fight back they will just keep coming.

So we should do all that you said to do "Jesus and the things HE was about....feeding the hungry, healing the sick, extending grace to the broken, correcting and building up the Church"

But we should also defend our right to exist and do those things you said, thats why we must fight in politics! The two things we believe doesn't have to be seperate from one another, with God as our guide we can accomplish both!

This has been a fun conversation :-)

gretchen lee said...

Okay, Michael...I'll respond this time, but unlike many bloggers, I'm not really looking for a debate as much as an exchange of ideas to chew on....:-)

"You see they want us to stay out of politics so they can slowly take away our rights to be christian..."

I guess I'm not so sure we should be so concerned with our "rights"...that's the point...was Jesus? Dosen't scripture say we'd be blessed when we're persecuted for his sake?
(Matt. 5:10, 1 Peter 4:12-14, 1 Peter 2:21-23, 2 Timothy 3:12)

As far as schools go, I don't want them trying to teach religion to my kids or even praying with my kids. That's my job, according to scripture.

It's my job to extend God's love and grace to people around me so they understand that God meets their every need, and they don't choose sex outside of marriage and don't choose abortion.

It's my job to speak out against injustice...yes....about Darfur, the Sudan, Abortion, Unfair Wages in Columbia.....because that's what Jesus did. But I'm not saying just to preach the Gospel, but to DO the Gospel, and Be the Good News.

But Jesus never fought for his "rights" or said that we should.

That's the big issue for me, Michael.

I'm not saying we stay completely out of government or politics...I regularly voice my opinion with my legislators and congressmen...

But the more we argue this, the more convinced I am that Christians "becoming far more politically involved to protect our faith" is absolutely not the answer.

If you can show me Christ's example or direction to fight for our rights, I'd be interested to see that.

I'm not sure this is a bloggable dabate (but as I mentioned earlier, I don't want to do any debating in a blog format).

I appreciate your passion, Mike, but I can't go with you on this one.

Just Christian said...

Wait, this came out in Christianity Today? Oh boy, somebody lost a job. And advertising revenue.

By the way, where can I get a list of the "enemies of God"? I fear I may be loving some of them currently and would like to stop if it's a waste of time.

Michael Tosh said...

To Just christian, I never said not love them...I love osama bin laden, but I want to stop him to!

Thanks for the discusion Gretchen God Bless and Good luck in Russia, I had a great time and you gave me alot of things to think about!